list of topics |  forum top |  home page |  polls |  posting hints |  contact admin
how to tie dye|  hand dyeing FAQs|  dyeing Q&A blog|  mailing lists and forums|  about this site
Home » forums » Natural Dyes

Rinsing Mordants?

After soaking fabric in mordant bath do you rinse before using to dye? I learned to not rinse and keep fabric damp before dying. Not to let it dry out. Now I'm reading from different sources that some people rinse first, some say to even let the fabric dry and cure for a few days. What method do you use and why and what results have you found?

By lasfibers at 2012-07-29 07:25 | Natural Dyes | login or register to post comments | previous forum topic | next forum topic

yes, rinse mordants

All the recipes I know call for rinsing mordants before adding dye.

For example, the general mordanting formula for protein fibers with alum in Dagmar Klos's Dyers Handbook calls for letting the fiber cool overnight in the mordant after simmering, then rinse the fiber before proceeding to dye. The recipe for alum-tannin-alum mordanting of cotton calls for simmering the cotton in alum, cooling overnight, removing the cotton from the alum, rinsing, adding to the tannin bath, simmering, cooling overnight, rinsing, then repeating the alum step. Every step concludes with rinsing.

Jenny Dean's recipe for home-made iron mordant (quoted in my blog here), made by soaking rusty bits of iron in vinegar, says that it's especially important to rinse the iron-mordanted fiber well, because otherwise the iron may transfer to other fibers being dyed in the same pot. She actually dyes fibers that have been mordanted with different metals together in the same pot! I would have assumed that enough of the iron would come off in the bath to "sadden" the color of everything dyed together, but apparently not. (Obviously I have not tried this myself.)

Letting the fibers dry out is not necessary, and it means you have to take extra care to fully rewet the fiber, but it seems like it might be handy to have pre-mordanted dry fiber on hand. I wonder how well that works.

J. N. Liles says in his "Basic Alum Mordant No. 1" recipe, "For best results, dry and air for one day before use". He also suggests fixing the alum mordant in cotton before dyeing with chalk, followed by rinsing thoroughly. Would you like me to type in what he says about fixing? It's in his book The Art and Craft of Natural Dyeing, which I think is a must-have for natural dyeing.

-Paula

By pburch at Sun, 2012-07-29 10:21 | login or register to post comments

mordant

Thanks Paula,

I have Jim Liles book and saw he dries fabric after mordant. Then Michelle Wipplinger says to keep it damp before using. I guess I just have to experiment and see what works for me. I want to mordant for fixing dyes. I previously posted about mordanting with aluminum acetate and having things turn yellow. I spoke with Michelle and she thought it was probably my well water. Since then I experimented (using India Flint's eco dye print bundling method) with silk fabric ph'd with vinegar only, one premordanted with alum and my well water, and a third premordanted with alum using distilled water. I need to take pics of the three and post them. The unmordanted piece shows brown euca leaves, the second with well water is bright yellow, the third with distilled water is also yellow though not as bright. I do not understand what is going on and I guess need to experiment further. If you have any ideas I'd be happy to be enlightened!

Lorri

http://www.lasfibers.com
http://www.lasfibers.blogspot.com

By lasfibers at Mon, 2012-08-13 12:06 | login or register to post comments

mordant yellowing

It's a puzzling question. It's clearly at least partly due to your well water, given that your well-water bundle was brighter yellow than your distilled water bundle—unless there was some other difference between the two. How striking was the difference in brightness? Might have been something else, if it's only a minor difference.

Did you prewash your silk using your well water? It's possible that a little residue of your well water might have been left behind.

If it's not that, then maybe there's something weird about your aluminum acetate (if the difference between the well-water and distilled-water bundles wasn't really that big). I'm glad you asked Michelle about it; that way you know this isn't something she commonly sees with aluminum acetate. I'd like to know what happens if you try a completely new supply of aluminum acetate.

-Paula

By pburch at Thu, 2012-08-16 08:05 | login or register to post comments

yellowing

Well duh Paula! LOL! yes I probably used my well water to scour the silk initially so I should try using distilled water all the way. Michelle has never heard of alum turning yellow and doesn't seem that the Alum goes bad SO you may be correct in that I started with the well water. I'll have to do some more experimenting and thank you so much for your thoughts.

Lorri

http://www.lasfibers.com
http://www.lasfibers.blogspot.com

By lasfibers at Thu, 2012-08-16 15:59 | login or register to post comments

It depends...

What's your goal with the mordant? Are you using it just to scour your fabric? In that case, you can rinse it out, but you will need to replace it at some point in the dyeing process in order to force the dye molecules to bond with the fabric.

Are you using the mordant as your fixative for the dyes? Then don't rinse it out, or your dyes will wash merrily down the sink and not bond with the fabric.

If you're using soda ash (for cotton, etc) or vinegar (for silks, etc) they don't need to be "cured". Plus, they both work when wet or dry.

Water behaves as a resist to dyes so a wet item will have a slower up-take of dye. If you want a softer, more diffused look, keep the fabric wet. If you want a sharper, crisper look, allow the piece to drip dry before applying your dyes. (Please don't put soda-soaked fabrics into your dryer... the soda will revert to particulate matter and enter the air, which could irritate your lungs if you're sensitive to it!)

Judi Hurwitt
Approachable Art
http://approachable-art.blogspot.com

By Judi Hurwitt at Sun, 2012-07-29 09:39 | login or register to post comments

mordants versus pH modifiers

Don't confuse pH modifiers with mordants! They are completely different. Soda ash and vinegar alter the pH; once you rinse them out, the effect is gone. Mordants, in contrast, form a long-lasting bond directly to the fiber; the natural dye (or chrome dye) then forms a bond to the metal ion. See What's the difference between mordants and other chemical assistants used in dyeing?

Judi's advice here is good with respect to soda ash and vinegar, which are not mordants.

-Paula

By pburch at Sun, 2012-07-29 10:08 | login or register to post comments

So Much More To Learn!

Eeeeeek all of my advice to the last poster could be invalid and I hope she takes it as such!! Thanks, Paula. Every time I think I have a handle on these things, I find out that I don't. LOL

SO glad to have your site (and my mentor, Carol) to help clear up these things. Thanks for the correction; apologies to the poster for inaccurate info!!

Judi Hurwitt
Approachable Art
http://approachable-art.blogspot.com

By Judi Hurwitt at Sun, 2012-07-29 10:14 | login or register to post comments

conversation

It's so handy that the forum is in the form of a conversation, rather than a single message. I hope that mistakes I make will be caught by someone else.

-Paula

By pburch at Sun, 2012-07-29 10:23 | login or register to post comments

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.

advertisements

Powered by Webmasters.com